46. DO PROTESTANT HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT?

1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us; but that they may be manifest, that they are not all of us."

Jesus said that you have received the grace and the wisdom from the Holy Ghost.
1 John 2:20 "But you have the unction from the Holy One, and know all things."
Know all things: The true children of God's church, remaining in unity, under the guidance of their lawful pastors, partake of the grace of the Holy Ghost, promised to the church and her pastors; and have in the church all necessary knowledge and instruction; so as to have no need to seek it elsewhere, since it can be only found in that society of which they are members.

But Jesus continued to say:  You have no need: You want not to be taught by any of these men, who, under pretense of imparting more knowledge to you, seek to seduce you (ver. 26), since you are sufficiently taught already, and have all knowledge and grace in the church, with the unction of the Holy Ghost; which these new teachers have no share in.
1 John 2:26 "These things have I written to you, concerning them that seduce you."
1 John 2:27 "And as for you, let the unction, which you have received from him, abide in you. And you have no need that any man teach you; but as his unction teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie. And as it hath taught you, abide in him."

However, if anyone preaches the gospel on his own and not according to what Jesus teaches us then beware for he is an instrument of the devil. 
Galatians 1:9 "As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema."

But Jesus is very specific when He said that if there are two or more gathered in His name He is with them. So regardless what religion we are with, He would be with them only if they are of Him and not against Him. How about Jesus' divinity? If they deny that He is not divine then they are against Him.
Matthew 18:20 "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

Any religion therefore that baptizes anyone in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is therefore with them only when the baptism is valid according to Jesus' instruction.
Matthew 28:19 "Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Do Protestant have the Holy Spirit? 
Here is what others say.

I'd like to share an article from the CATHOLIC LANE.                                                                                                            
Here at the Bad Evangelist Club, we are trying to do more than just correct some misguided ideas you hear from a lot of apologists and evangelists.  In addition to pointing out what not to think, it helps to remember what we should think.  When it comes to the topic of Protestants and Ecumenism, it is a topic where we have a lot of heat, and very little light.

In a recent thread here at Catholic Lane, a commenter said the following, and his response will serve as a jumping point for this discussion:

I think God laughs at all this theological hairsplitting. Protestant Christians are His children, too. They have the Holy Spirit and are our brothers and sisters in Christ, heirs to all the promises of Christ.

Here at the Bad Evangelist Club, we are trying to do more than just correct some misguided ideas you hear from a lot of apologists and evangelists.  In addition to pointing out what not to think, it helps to remember what we should think.  When it comes to the topic of Protestants and Ecumenism, it is a topic where we have a lot of heat, and very little light.
In a recent thread here at Catholic Lane, a commenter said the following, and his response will serve as a jumping point for this discussion:

I think God laughs at all this theological hairsplitting. Protestant Christians are His children, too. They have the Holy Spirit and are our brothers and sisters in Christ, heirs to all the promises of Christ.

- See more at: http://catholiclane.com/the-bad-evangelist-club-do-protestants-have-the-holy-spirit/#sthash.2EGN20fT.dpuf

Yes, Protestants Have the Holy Spirit

The statement I just made above seems to be a hard statement for many to take.  In these cases, it helps to understand what is being said.

1.)  When you are baptized validly, you become a child of God.

2.)  This baptism is valid even in non-Catholic congregations if done validly.

3.)  When we are baptized, Scripture makes clear we receive the Holy Spirit.  (Acts 2:38)

4.)  Protestants are validly baptized

5.)  In this sense, Protestants have the Holy Spirit

This Means Far Less Than You Might Think

From those simple points, many argue (or fear others will believe) that since Protestants have the Spirit, we shouldn’t emphasize the importance of the Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ, to which all must be united to.  Since they have the Spirit, who are we to judge how they use the Spirit?  Shouldn’t we leave that part to God, and just “love” our neighbor?

While this is a faulty understanding of ecumenism, first and foremost it is a faulty understanding of the Holy Spirit.  Being misguided in prudential approaches is one thing, being misguided about God’s very being is quite another.  This understanding (whether in its promotion or feared acceptance) treats the Holy Spirit as some inanimate object, some talisman.  At this point the Third Person of the Trinity ceases to become a Divine Person, and more an object people can manipulate at will.  This object exists just for the preference of sanctifying the individual Christian.  It is a very individualistic (and fundamentalist) view of the Spirit:  the Spirit exists for my well being only.

Why is the Holy Spirit Here?

The Bible speaks of the Spirit’s purpose in far different terms.  The Holy Spirit comes to “reprove the world of sin”(John 16:8), and “to guide you into all Truth.”  (John 16:13) It must be pointed out that in this context, Christ is addressing the Apostles as a group.  So when he states the Holy Spirit will guide “you”, he is speaking of the collective.  The Spirit is trying to guide all of God’s children towards the truth.

Sometimes this can get obscured by our language.  For when Catholics rightly talk about the very special way we possess the Holy Spirit (in the ability for a priest to confect the sacraments), even in this instance the priest is not controlling the Holy Spirit.  Rather, the priest (and sometimes lay faithful!) are sharing in the ministry of Christ’s priesthood and giving Spirit to the world.  While this does occur through the Sacraments in a singular and special way, there is more to the action of the Spirit than the sacraments.

What is This Action?

St. John Paul II states that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is that He is “the one who points out the ways leading to the union of Christians, indeed as the supreme source of this unity.”  (Dominum et Vivificantem)  When we speak of the union of Christians, it is helpful to remember this is not just a mere cliche.  We are speaking of a hope that all who profess the name of Christ are not only united to each other, but united together in Christ.  It is a call that every Christian take up his vocation and enter deeply into communion with God.

From this standpoint, anything that helps to make that communion with God a reality comes from the Holy Spirit.  This means baptism even if we aren’t Catholic.  It also means the Sacred Scriptures. 

The Scriptures are “a Letter, written by our heavenly Father, and transmitted by the sacred writers to the human race in its pilgrimage so far from its heavenly country.”  (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus)  They guide all to heaven, whether Catholic or non-Catholic.

The Second Vatican Council refers to these gifts as “elements of sanctification” which can be “found outside its visible structure.”  What is most important about these gifts is what the Council says next. The Council states that these gifts are “are forces impelling toward catholic unity.”

Why Does Division Exist?

If there are gifts of the Spirit present even outside of the Church, and these gifts are God’s way of pushing humanity towards the Catholic Church, why are all Christians not united?  First and foremost, we Catholics should have no problem confessing that we have not always been good representatives of the Holy Spirit.  We’ve squandered the gifts provided to us through our inaction, or sometimes through bad action.  We sometimes don’t give enough credence to the fact that our behavior plays a huge role in how people around us see Christ.  While they are responsible for their own choices, we are also responsible for which direction we push them in through our behavior.

Yet even if we are good witnesses, sometimes the work of the Spirit is not as effective as it could be. 

At this point the truth of what it means to “have the Spirit” is revealed.  According to St. Stephen, the Jews of his day had the Holy Spirit.  He knew the Jews had the Spirit because the Sanhedrin resisted the Spirit at every turn.  (Acts 7:58)  The Spirit exists to push us closer to Christ, and that means to the Church He founded.  We are free to be guided by this Spirit, or we can resist it.  Even with the sacraments, we frequently resist the Spirit in our own lives.

Why Does This Matter?

While all of this might sound like a pointless theological exercise, this should have profound implication for our desire to evangelize.    Our Protestant brethren having the Spirit should make us want to witness to them more, not less.  If they have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit (even if it is not readily apparent) is guiding them towards the Catholic Church.  To reach the Church, the Holy Spirit is guiding them to us.   Sometimes we need to go out there and let people know we are there for that purpose.  While this might take the form of a debate/argument, more often than not, we are there to answer questions.  Yet in order to fulfill this role the Spirit has for us, we need to make ourselves present.  Otherwise, in our failure to evangelize, we are resisting the Spirit as well.

See more at: Catholiclane.com/the-bad-evangelist-club-do-protestants-have-the-holy-spirit/

***

Those who wants to receive the Holy Spirit must believe in Jesus Christ

      

Acts Of Apostles 19:4 "Then Paul said: John baptized the people with the baptism of penance, saying: That they should believe in him who was to come after him, that is to say, in Jesus."

Apostle Peter affirms that anyone who believes in Jesus and be baptized shall received the gift of God - the Holy Spirit.

Acts Of Apostles 2:38 "But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost: So indeed everyone should have the Holy Spirit. But not all who speaks of Him have Him. For there are many false teachers and antichrists among us who are the wolfs in sheep's clothing.

Yes, Protestants Have the Holy Spirit
The statement I just made above seems to be a hard statement for many to take.  In these cases, it helps to understand what is being said.
1.)  When you are baptized validly, you become a child of God.
2.)  This baptism is valid even in non-Catholic congregations if done validly.
3.)  When we are baptized, Scripture makes clear we receive the Holy Spirit.  (Acts 2:38)
4.)  Protestants are validly baptized
5.)  In this sense, Protestants have the Holy Spirit
This Means Far Less Than You Might Think
From those simple points, many argue (or fear others will believe) that since Protestants have the Spirit, we shouldn’t emphasize the importance of the Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ, to which all must be united to.  Since they have the Spirit, who are we to judge how they use the Spirit?  Shouldn’t we leave that part to God, and just “love” our neighbor?
While this is a faulty understanding of ecumenism, first and foremost it is a faulty understanding of the Holy Spirit.  Being misguided in prudential approaches is one thing, being misguided about God’s very being is quite another.  This understanding (whether in its promotion or feared acceptance) treats the Holy Spirit as some inanimate object, some talisman.  At this point the Third Person of the Trinity ceases to become a Divine Person, and more an object people can manipulate at will.  This object exists just for the preference of sanctifying the individual Christian.  It is a very individualistic (and fundamentalist) view of the Spirit:  the Spirit exists for my well being only.
Why is the Holy Spirit Here?
The Bible speaks of the Spirit’s purpose in far different terms.  The Holy Spirit comes to “reprove the world of sin”(John 16:8), and “to guide you into all Truth.”  (John 16:13) It must be pointed out that in this context, Christ is addressing the Apostles as a group.  So when he states the Holy Spirit will guide “you”, he is speaking of the collective.  The Spirit is trying to guide all of God’s children towards the truth.
Sometimes this can get obscured by our language.  For when Catholics rightly talk about the very special way we possess the Holy Spirit (in the ability for a priest to confect the sacraments), even in this instance the priest is not controlling the Holy Spirit.  Rather, the priest (and sometimes lay faithful!) are sharing in the ministry of Christ’s priesthood and giving Spirit to the world.  While this does occur through the Sacraments in a singular and special way, there is more to the action of the Spirit than the sacraments.
What is This Action?
St. John Paul II states that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is that He is “the one who points out the ways leading to the union of Christians, indeed as the supreme source of this unity.”  (Dominum et Vivificantem)  When we speak of the union of Christians, it is helpful to remember this is not just a mere cliche.  We are speaking of a hope that all who profess the name of Christ are not only united to each other, but united together in Christ.  It is a call that every Christian take up his vocation and enter deeply into communion with God.
From this standpoint, anything that helps to make that communion with God a reality comes from the Holy Spirit.  This means baptism even if we aren’t Catholic.  It also means the Sacred Scriptures.  The Scriptures are “a Letter, written by our heavenly Father, and transmitted by the sacred writers to the human race in its pilgrimage so far from its heavenly country.”  (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus)  They guide all to heaven, whether Catholic or non-Catholic.
The Second Vatican Council refers to these gifts as “elements of sanctification” which can be “found outside its visible structure.”  What is most important about these gifts is what the Council says next.  The Council states that these gifts are “are forces impelling toward catholic unity.”
Why Does Division Exist?
If there are gifts of the Spirit present even outside of the Church, and these gifts are God’s way of pushing humanity towards the Catholic Church, why are all Christians not united?  First and foremost, we Catholics should have no problem confessing that we have not always been good representatives of the Holy Spirit.  We’ve squandered the gifts provided to us through our inaction, or sometimes through bad action.  We sometimes don’t give enough credence to the fact that our behavior plays a huge role in how people around us see Christ.  While they are responsible for their own choices, we are also responsible for which direction we push them in through our behavior.
Yet even if we are good witnesses, sometimes the work of the Spirit is not as effective as it could be.  At this point the truth of what it means to “have the Spirit” is revealed.  According to St. Stephen, the Jews of his day had the Holy Spirit.  He knew the Jews had the Spirit because the Sanhedrin resisted the Spirit at every turn.  (Acts 7:58)  The Spirit exists to push us closer to Christ, and that means to the Church He founded.  We are free to be guided by this Spirit, or we can resist it.  Even with the sacraments, we frequently resist the Spirit in our own lives.
Why Does This Matter?
While all of this might sound like a pointless theological exercise, this should have profound implication for our desire to evangelize.    Our Protestant brethren having the Spirit should make us want to witness to them more, not less.  If they have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit (even if it is not readily apparent) is guiding them towards the Catholic Church.  To reach the Church, the Holy Spirit is guiding them to us.   Sometimes we need to go out there and let people know we are there for that purpose.  While this might take the form of a debate/argument, more often than not, we are there to answer questions.  Yet in order to fulfill this role the Spirit has for us, we need to make ourselves present.  Otherwise, in our failure to evangelize, we are resisting the Spirit as well.
- See more at: http://catholiclane.com/the-bad-evangelist-club-do-protestants-have-the-holy-spirit/#sthash.2EGN20fT.dpuf

Here at the Bad Evangelist Club, we are trying to do more than just correct some misguided ideas you hear from a lot of apologists and evangelists.  In addition to pointing out what not to think, it helps to remember what we should think.  When it comes to the topic of Protestants and Ecumenism, it is a topic where we have a lot of heat, and very little light.
In a recent thread here at Catholic Lane, a commenter said the following, and his response will serve as a jumping point for this discussion:

I think God laughs at all this theological hairsplitting. Protestant Christians are His children, too. They have the Holy Spirit and are our brothers and sisters in Christ, heirs to all the promises of Christ.

Yes, Protestants Have the Holy Spirit
The statement I just made above seems to be a hard statement for many to take.  In these cases, it helps to understand what is being said.
1.)  When you are baptized validly, you become a child of God.
2.)  This baptism is valid even in non-Catholic congregations if done validly.
3.)  When we are baptized, Scripture makes clear we receive the Holy Spirit.  (Acts 2:38)
4.)  Protestants are validly baptized
5.)  In this sense, Protestants have the Holy Spirit
This Means Far Less Than You Might Think
From those simple points, many argue (or fear others will believe) that since Protestants have the Spirit, we shouldn’t emphasize the importance of the Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ, to which all must be united to.  Since they have the Spirit, who are we to judge how they use the Spirit?  Shouldn’t we leave that part to God, and just “love” our neighbor?
While this is a faulty understanding of ecumenism, first and foremost it is a faulty understanding of the Holy Spirit.  Being misguided in prudential approaches is one thing, being misguided about God’s very being is quite another.  This understanding (whether in its promotion or feared acceptance) treats the Holy Spirit as some inanimate object, some talisman.  At this point the Third Person of the Trinity ceases to become a Divine Person, and more an object people can manipulate at will.  This object exists just for the preference of sanctifying the individual Christian.  It is a very individualistic (and fundamentalist) view of the Spirit:  the Spirit exists for my well being only.
Why is the Holy Spirit Here?
The Bible speaks of the Spirit’s purpose in far different terms.  The Holy Spirit comes to “reprove the world of sin”(John 16:8), and “to guide you into all Truth.”  (John 16:13) It must be pointed out that in this context, Christ is addressing the Apostles as a group.  So when he states the Holy Spirit will guide “you”, he is speaking of the collective.  The Spirit is trying to guide all of God’s children towards the truth.
Sometimes this can get obscured by our language.  For when Catholics rightly talk about the very special way we possess the Holy Spirit (in the ability for a priest to confect the sacraments), even in this instance the priest is not controlling the Holy Spirit.  Rather, the priest (and sometimes lay faithful!) are sharing in the ministry of Christ’s priesthood and giving Spirit to the world.  While this does occur through the Sacraments in a singular and special way, there is more to the action of the Spirit than the sacraments.
What is This Action?
St. John Paul II states that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is that He is “the one who points out the ways leading to the union of Christians, indeed as the supreme source of this unity.”  (Dominum et Vivificantem)  When we speak of the union of Christians, it is helpful to remember this is not just a mere cliche.  We are speaking of a hope that all who profess the name of Christ are not only united to each other, but united together in Christ.  It is a call that every Christian take up his vocation and enter deeply into communion with God.
From this standpoint, anything that helps to make that communion with God a reality comes from the Holy Spirit.  This means baptism even if we aren’t Catholic.  It also means the Sacred Scriptures.  The Scriptures are “a Letter, written by our heavenly Father, and transmitted by the sacred writers to the human race in its pilgrimage so far from its heavenly country.”  (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus)  They guide all to heaven, whether Catholic or non-Catholic.
The Second Vatican Council refers to these gifts as “elements of sanctification” which can be “found outside its visible structure.”  What is most important about these gifts is what the Council says next.  The Council states that these gifts are “are forces impelling toward catholic unity.”
Why Does Division Exist?
If there are gifts of the Spirit present even outside of the Church, and these gifts are God’s way of pushing humanity towards the Catholic Church, why are all Christians not united?  First and foremost, we Catholics should have no problem confessing that we have not always been good representatives of the Holy Spirit.  We’ve squandered the gifts provided to us through our inaction, or sometimes through bad action.  We sometimes don’t give enough credence to the fact that our behavior plays a huge role in how people around us see Christ.  While they are responsible for their own choices, we are also responsible for which direction we push them in through our behavior.
Yet even if we are good witnesses, sometimes the work of the Spirit is not as effective as it could be.  At this point the truth of what it means to “have the Spirit” is revealed.  According to St. Stephen, the Jews of his day had the Holy Spirit.  He knew the Jews had the Spirit because the Sanhedrin resisted the Spirit at every turn.  (Acts 7:58)  The Spirit exists to push us closer to Christ, and that means to the Church He founded.  We are free to be guided by this Spirit, or we can resist it.  Even with the sacraments, we frequently resist the Spirit in our own lives.
Why Does This Matter?
While all of this might sound like a pointless theological exercise, this should have profound implication for our desire to evangelize.    Our Protestant brethren having the Spirit should make us want to witness to them more, not less.  If they have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit (even if it is not readily apparent) is guiding them towards the Catholic Church.  To reach the Church, the Holy Spirit is guiding them to us.   Sometimes we need to go out there and let people know we are there for that purpose.  While this might take the form of a debate/argument, more often than not, we are there to answer questions.  Yet in order to fulfill this role the Spirit has for us, we need to make ourselves present.  Otherwise, in our failure to evangelize, we are resisting the Spirit as well.
- See more at: http://catholiclane.com/the-bad-evangelist-club-do-protestants-have-the-holy-spirit/#sthash.2EGN20fT.dpuf

Here at the Bad Evangelist Club, we are trying to do more than just correct some misguided ideas you hear from a lot of apologists and evangelists.  In addition to pointing out what not to think, it helps to remember what we should think.  When it comes to the topic of Protestants and Ecumenism, it is a topic where we have a lot of heat, and very little light.
In a recent thread here at Catholic Lane, a commenter said the following, and his response will serve as a jumping point for this discussion:

I think God laughs at all this theological hairsplitting. Protestant Christians are His children, too. They have the Holy Spirit and are our brothers and sisters in Christ, heirs to all the promises of Christ.

Yes, Protestants Have the Holy Spirit
The statement I just made above seems to be a hard statement for many to take.  In these cases, it helps to understand what is being said.
1.)  When you are baptized validly, you become a child of God.
2.)  This baptism is valid even in non-Catholic congregations if done validly.
3.)  When we are baptized, Scripture makes clear we receive the Holy Spirit.  (Acts 2:38)
4.)  Protestants are validly baptized
5.)  In this sense, Protestants have the Holy Spirit
This Means Far Less Than You Might Think
From those simple points, many argue (or fear others will believe) that since Protestants have the Spirit, we shouldn’t emphasize the importance of the Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ, to which all must be united to.  Since they have the Spirit, who are we to judge how they use the Spirit?  Shouldn’t we leave that part to God, and just “love” our neighbor?
While this is a faulty understanding of ecumenism, first and foremost it is a faulty understanding of the Holy Spirit.  Being misguided in prudential approaches is one thing, being misguided about God’s very being is quite another.  This understanding (whether in its promotion or feared acceptance) treats the Holy Spirit as some inanimate object, some talisman.  At this point the Third Person of the Trinity ceases to become a Divine Person, and more an object people can manipulate at will.  This object exists just for the preference of sanctifying the individual Christian.  It is a very individualistic (and fundamentalist) view of the Spirit:  the Spirit exists for my well being only.
Why is the Holy Spirit Here?
The Bible speaks of the Spirit’s purpose in far different terms.  The Holy Spirit comes to “reprove the world of sin”(John 16:8), and “to guide you into all Truth.”  (John 16:13) It must be pointed out that in this context, Christ is addressing the Apostles as a group.  So when he states the Holy Spirit will guide “you”, he is speaking of the collective.  The Spirit is trying to guide all of God’s children towards the truth.
Sometimes this can get obscured by our language.  For when Catholics rightly talk about the very special way we possess the Holy Spirit (in the ability for a priest to confect the sacraments), even in this instance the priest is not controlling the Holy Spirit.  Rather, the priest (and sometimes lay faithful!) are sharing in the ministry of Christ’s priesthood and giving Spirit to the world.  While this does occur through the Sacraments in a singular and special way, there is more to the action of the Spirit than the sacraments.
What is This Action?
St. John Paul II states that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is that He is “the one who points out the ways leading to the union of Christians, indeed as the supreme source of this unity.”  (Dominum et Vivificantem)  When we speak of the union of Christians, it is helpful to remember this is not just a mere cliche.  We are speaking of a hope that all who profess the name of Christ are not only united to each other, but united together in Christ.  It is a call that every Christian take up his vocation and enter deeply into communion with God.
From this standpoint, anything that helps to make that communion with God a reality comes from the Holy Spirit.  This means baptism even if we aren’t Catholic.  It also means the Sacred Scriptures.  The Scriptures are “a Letter, written by our heavenly Father, and transmitted by the sacred writers to the human race in its pilgrimage so far from its heavenly country.”  (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus)  They guide all to heaven, whether Catholic or non-Catholic.
The Second Vatican Council refers to these gifts as “elements of sanctification” which can be “found outside its visible structure.”  What is most important about these gifts is what the Council says next.  The Council states that these gifts are “are forces impelling toward catholic unity.”
Why Does Division Exist?
If there are gifts of the Spirit present even outside of the Church, and these gifts are God’s way of pushing humanity towards the Catholic Church, why are all Christians not united?  First and foremost, we Catholics should have no problem confessing that we have not always been good representatives of the Holy Spirit.  We’ve squandered the gifts provided to us through our inaction, or sometimes through bad action.  We sometimes don’t give enough credence to the fact that our behavior plays a huge role in how people around us see Christ.  While they are responsible for their own choices, we are also responsible for which direction we push them in through our behavior.
Yet even if we are good witnesses, sometimes the work of the Spirit is not as effective as it could be.  At this point the truth of what it means to “have the Spirit” is revealed.  According to St. Stephen, the Jews of his day had the Holy Spirit.  He knew the Jews had the Spirit because the Sanhedrin resisted the Spirit at every turn.  (Acts 7:58)  The Spirit exists to push us closer to Christ, and that means to the Church He founded.  We are free to be guided by this Spirit, or we can resist it.  Even with the sacraments, we frequently resist the Spirit in our own lives.
Why Does This Matter?
While all of this might sound like a pointless theological exercise, this should have profound implication for our desire to evangelize.    Our Protestant brethren having the Spirit should make us want to witness to them more, not less.  If they have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit (even if it is not readily apparent) is guiding them towards the Catholic Church.  To reach the Church, the Holy Spirit is guiding them to us.   Sometimes we need to go out there and let people know we are there for that purpose.  While this might take the form of a debate/argument, more often than not, we are there to answer questions.  Yet in order to fulfill this role the Spirit has for us, we need to make ourselves present.  Otherwise, in our failure to evangelize, we are resisting the Spirit as well.
- See more at: http://catholiclane.com/the-bad-evangelist-club-do-protestants-have-the-holy-spirit/#sthash.2EGN20fT.dpuf

Here at the Bad Evangelist Club, we are trying to do more than just correct some misguided ideas you hear from a lot of apologists and evangelists.  In addition to pointing out what not to think, it helps to remember what we should think.  When it comes to the topic of Protestants and Ecumenism, it is a topic where we have a lot of heat, and very little light.
In a recent thread here at Catholic Lane, a commenter said the following, and his response will serve as a jumping point for this discussion:

I think God laughs at all this theological hairsplitting. Protestant Christians are His children, too. They have the Holy Spirit and are our brothers and sisters in Christ, heirs to all the promises of Christ.

Yes, Protestants Have the Holy Spirit
The statement I just made above seems to be a hard statement for many to take.  In these cases, it helps to understand what is being said.
1.)  When you are baptized validly, you become a child of God.
2.)  This baptism is valid even in non-Catholic congregations if done validly.
3.)  When we are baptized, Scripture makes clear we receive the Holy Spirit.  (Acts 2:38)
4.)  Protestants are validly baptized
5.)  In this sense, Protestants have the Holy Spirit
This Means Far Less Than You Might Think
From those simple points, many argue (or fear others will believe) that since Protestants have the Spirit, we shouldn’t emphasize the importance of the Catholic Church being the Church founded by Christ, to which all must be united to.  Since they have the Spirit, who are we to judge how they use the Spirit?  Shouldn’t we leave that part to God, and just “love” our neighbor?
While this is a faulty understanding of ecumenism, first and foremost it is a faulty understanding of the Holy Spirit.  Being misguided in prudential approaches is one thing, being misguided about God’s very being is quite another.  This understanding (whether in its promotion or feared acceptance) treats the Holy Spirit as some inanimate object, some talisman.  At this point the Third Person of the Trinity ceases to become a Divine Person, and more an object people can manipulate at will.  This object exists just for the preference of sanctifying the individual Christian.  It is a very individualistic (and fundamentalist) view of the Spirit:  the Spirit exists for my well being only.
Why is the Holy Spirit Here?
The Bible speaks of the Spirit’s purpose in far different terms.  The Holy Spirit comes to “reprove the world of sin”(John 16:8), and “to guide you into all Truth.”  (John 16:13) It must be pointed out that in this context, Christ is addressing the Apostles as a group.  So when he states the Holy Spirit will guide “you”, he is speaking of the collective.  The Spirit is trying to guide all of God’s children towards the truth.
Sometimes this can get obscured by our language.  For when Catholics rightly talk about the very special way we possess the Holy Spirit (in the ability for a priest to confect the sacraments), even in this instance the priest is not controlling the Holy Spirit.  Rather, the priest (and sometimes lay faithful!) are sharing in the ministry of Christ’s priesthood and giving Spirit to the world.  While this does occur through the Sacraments in a singular and special way, there is more to the action of the Spirit than the sacraments.
What is This Action?
St. John Paul II states that the purpose of the Holy Spirit is that He is “the one who points out the ways leading to the union of Christians, indeed as the supreme source of this unity.”  (Dominum et Vivificantem)  When we speak of the union of Christians, it is helpful to remember this is not just a mere cliche.  We are speaking of a hope that all who profess the name of Christ are not only united to each other, but united together in Christ.  It is a call that every Christian take up his vocation and enter deeply into communion with God.
From this standpoint, anything that helps to make that communion with God a reality comes from the Holy Spirit.  This means baptism even if we aren’t Catholic.  It also means the Sacred Scriptures.  The Scriptures are “a Letter, written by our heavenly Father, and transmitted by the sacred writers to the human race in its pilgrimage so far from its heavenly country.”  (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus)  They guide all to heaven, whether Catholic or non-Catholic.
The Second Vatican Council refers to these gifts as “elements of sanctification” which can be “found outside its visible structure.”  What is most important about these gifts is what the Council says next.  The Council states that these gifts are “are forces impelling toward catholic unity.”
Why Does Division Exist?
If there are gifts of the Spirit present even outside of the Church, and these gifts are God’s way of pushing humanity towards the Catholic Church, why are all Christians not united?  First and foremost, we Catholics should have no problem confessing that we have not always been good representatives of the Holy Spirit.  We’ve squandered the gifts provided to us through our inaction, or sometimes through bad action.  We sometimes don’t give enough credence to the fact that our behavior plays a huge role in how people around us see Christ.  While they are responsible for their own choices, we are also responsible for which direction we push them in through our behavior.
Yet even if we are good witnesses, sometimes the work of the Spirit is not as effective as it could be.  At this point the truth of what it means to “have the Spirit” is revealed.  According to St. Stephen, the Jews of his day had the Holy Spirit.  He knew the Jews had the Spirit because the Sanhedrin resisted the Spirit at every turn.  (Acts 7:58)  The Spirit exists to push us closer to Christ, and that means to the Church He founded.  We are free to be guided by this Spirit, or we can resist it.  Even with the sacraments, we frequently resist the Spirit in our own lives.
Why Does This Matter?
While all of this might sound like a pointless theological exercise, this should have profound implication for our desire to evangelize.    Our Protestant brethren having the Spirit should make us want to witness to them more, not less.  If they have the Holy Spirit, the Spirit (even if it is not readily apparent) is guiding them towards the Catholic Church.  To reach the Church, the Holy Spirit is guiding them to us.   Sometimes we need to go out there and let people know we are there for that purpose.  While this might take the form of a debate/argument, more often than not, we are there to answer questions.  Yet in order to fulfill this role the Spirit has for us, we need to make ourselves present.  Otherwise, in our failure to evangelize, we are resisting the Spirit as well.
- See more at: http://catholiclane.com/the-bad-evangelist-club-do-protestants-have-the-holy-spirit/#sthash.2EGN20fT.dpuf

45. THE JOHANNINE COMMA, 1 JOHN 5:7, AS PROOF OF CHRIST’S DIVINITY

 

An Anti-Catholic Church's Member Claimed That the Three Divine Persons of the Holy Trinity were Just in Agreement with Each Other but not as the TRINITY

In one of the forums about religion, I was in discussion with a member of the Iglesia Ni Cristo church (Church of Christ in English) founded by Felix Manalo in 1914. The member claimed and told me that 1 JOHN 5:7 was just

- an agreement or that they are one agreeing to each other, and not one and of three persons

- You have to supplement a verse from the Bible from other verses. 

The Bible is in harmony, it has no contradiction. You can’t use a Johannine Comma to support the Trinity doctrine. A simple Google search will tell you the origins of the Trinity doctrine.

JOHN 17:21-22 “that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”

“one God—the Father over all who is above all, through all, and in all.” (EPHESIANS 4:6)

“I will not execute the fierceness of My anger; I will not again destroy Ephraim. For I am God, and not man, The Holy One in your midst; And I will not come with terror.” (HOSEA 11:9)

“For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.” (MALACHI 3:6)

Does Jesus have a God? “Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.” (JOHN 20:17)

We could go on and on about this, but You would either ‘REJECT’ your ‘WRONG’ and ‘PROBLEMATIC’ understanding or ‘BELIEVE’ what Jesus says.

Iglesia Ni Cristo "Church of Christ"

The following were my answers to him:

In 1 JOHN 5:7 “And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.”

The WORDS of the bible is very clear. It says there are THREE who give testimony in heaven, it didn’t say ONE. The bible tells who these three are: the FATHER, the WORD and the HOLY GHOST. And the bible described that these THREE ARE ONE. Even an elementary pupil can read and understand this very clearly. But of course only the blinds and perverted minds will say otherwise for they are still the “other sheep’ who have yet to know Jesus Christ which at the end of this article is clearly explained according to the bible.

JOHN 1:1-3  1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.”

In this verse from the beginning the bible already described who the WORD is that He was with God and that this WORD was GOD.

GENESIS 1:26 “And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.”

Again from the beginning when God the Father said “LET US make man to OUR IMAGE AND LIKENESS” God was with His Son and the Holy Spirit.

ACTS 3:15 “But the author of life you killed, whom God hath raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.”

In this verse, how can Jesus be the author of life whom the Jews had killed if Jesus was not God who authored life? Can a special man who was the first created man according to Felix Manalo be the author of mankind? This kind of thinking is absolutely insane and could only be taught by such an insane self-proclaimer who claimed he was the last messenger in the last days, the 5th angel who never was and never would had been at all for he is a plain dreamer and a corrupter of the Holy Scriptures.

1 JOHN 5:9-10   9 “If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God, which is greater, because he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth in the Son of God, hath the testimony of God in himself. He that believeth not the Son, maketh him a liar: because he believeth not in the testimony which God hath testified of his Son.” 

God’s testimony is far greater than any man like Felix Manalo (founder of Iglesia Ni Cristo 'Church of Christ') and verse 10 says Felix Manalo is that kind of a liar. 

Yes, the bible is truly in harmony with everything written in it and definitely without contradictions and never in disagreement by itself. It is the Iglesia Ni Cristo of Felix Manalo who is in disagreement with the Holy Scriptures. 

I asked  him (Iglesia Ni Cristo member); why do you love to add words and change the bible verses’ spiritual meaning? Are you with and for God or with and for Felix Manalo? You are showing that Felix Manalo is greater than Jesus Christ who you all considered as just a special man. 

Why did I say that the Iglesia Ni Cristo is in disagreement with the Holy Scripture? 

Here are some few reasons why:

•  INC always teaches, emphasizes and inculcates in the mind of all its members most especially among the young ones that Felix Manalo is an angel who is not for his own teachings says otherwise here PASUGO in 1940 p.12-13 “Ang tao ay talagang tao at ang anghel nama’y talagang angel. Ang tao ay hindi anghel at ang anghel ay hindi tao… Kaya’t huwag ninyong hintayin patunayan namin na ang tao ay maaaring maging anghel, sapagka’t iya’y hindi maari. Hindi kami naniniwala na ang tao ay Anghel -Walang taong anghel.” Translation: "The people are really human and angels are angels. The people are not angels and the angels are not human ... So do not wait until we prove that people can be angels, because that's not possible. We do not believe that the a human is an angel -There is no human angel."

• Felix Manalo lied about “Church of Christ”. The “Church of Christ” was established in 1836 in U.S.A. by Warren Stone and Alexander Campbell not in 1914 by Felix Manalo (facts hidden from members of Iglesia Ni Cristo). So his great apostasy doctrine and teaching about the Catholic Church became not only baseless but utterly useless thus he can no longer claim that the Christ re-established once again His church in 1914. If Iglesia Ni Cristo will insist that Christ came to re-establish by prophecy then Warren Stone and Alexander Campbell might as well claimed that for their own 1836 “Church of Christ”. Iglesia Ni Cristo of Felix Manalo will be in total quandary now on how they can find some verses in the bible to destroy Warren Stone and Alexander Campbell as well and declare their church too as also have apostatized so Iglesia Ni Cristo of Felix Manalo could claim the sole ownership of such heretical claim of re-establishment of Church of Christ in 1914. 

• JOHN 20:28 “Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God” is only one of those real proof of Jesus’ Divinity yet Iglesia Ni Cristo denies this and instead will give you other verses that shows Jesus talks about His Father as God. Because their (INC) minds are closed to anything other than what their central administration tells them. There is no way for that belief can change, not now or anytime in the future. INC ministers, deacons and members would never attempt to disobey or refute what their central administration office had declared and said so for fear of being expelled from the church. 

• PASUGO Mayo 1964, p. 1: “Inihandog ng Dios ang kanyang sarili sa kanyang huling sugo upang dumiyos sa kanya. Samakatuwid, ang tanging may Dios na huling araw na ito’y ang huling sugo — si Kapatid na Felix Manalo.” Translation: "God offered himself to his last messenger to worship Him. Therefore, the only one who have God in the last days shall be the last messenger - Brother Felix Manalo."  This is a self-proclamation which is UNBIBLICAL HIGHLY HERETICAL and therefore just one of those lies.

• PASUGO Octobre 1959, p. 5: “Mga magdaraya at anti-Cristo, ang mga nagtuturong si Cristo ay Dios.” Translation: "The deceiver and the antichrist, is the one teaching that Christ is God"   Then to nail down his argument, he declared that anyone who teaches that Jesus Christ is God is an Antichrist. Then he again contradicts these two verses: 1 JOHN 4:2-3 2 By this is the spirit of God known. Every spirit which confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God: 3 And every spirit that dissolveth Jesus, is not of God: and this is Antichrist, of whom you have heard that he cometh, and he is now already in the world. Verse 2 expressed that those who accepts Jesus is God who come in the flesh is of God but verse 3 otherwise say that anyone who destroys the Divinity of Jesus is of the devil.

•  2 PETER 1:20 “No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation:" This shows plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise.”

• The two passages often cited by INC to support this are ROMANS 16:16 “Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you” and the George Lamsa translation of ACTS 20:28: “Take heed therefore . . . to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood” The Catholic’s bible (original) version:  ACTS 20:28 “Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”

• How the original texts were change to pervert the teachings and doctrines in the Bible: ROMANS 16:16 “churches of Christ” to “Church of Christ” from a descriptive to a proper noun. ACTS 20:28 “God” was changed to “Christ” to change the meaning of the verse when read literally…though Jesus is also God but the Iglesia Ni Cristo used this protestant bible to invent the “Church of Christ”. This is perversion or corruption of the bible. Iglesia Ni Cristo does not worship Jesus Christ as God but worship him as a man only (no Divinity). What a perversion?

• Iglesia Ni Manalo always says that anyone outside his Iglesia are condemned to go to hell and yet this one contradicts Felix Manalo’s own doctrine and teaching – PASUGO Hulyo 1953, p. 15: (written by Joaquin Balmores) “Kami raw na mga Iglesia ni Cristo ay nagtatangi ng mga tao. Sinasarili raw namin ang kaligtasan. Iyan ay hindi totoo, at kung may nasasabi niyan sa amin sa kasalukuyan, iyan ay bunga ng malaking kadiliman na naghahari sa kanyang buong pagkatao.” Translation: "They say Church of Christ members are special chosen people. That we claimed we are the only that will be saved. That is not true, and if anyone expresses that to us at this present time, that is only the product of the great darkness reigning in his whole being."   On the other hand 13 years later another minister wrote in PASUGO Agosto 1966, p.13: (sinulat ni Tomas C. Catangay) “Totoo na kailangan ng tao ang pananampalataya upang maligtas, ngunit kung siya’y hindi Iglesia ni Cristo, tiyak na hindi siya maliligtas" Translation: "True that people need faith to be saved, but if he is not with the Church of Christ, certain that he will not be saved"

• But Felix Manalo did not know that “Church of Christ” has already been established in 1836 in America. Felix Manalo lied that the “Church of Christ” was only established in in 1914 by him and not 1836 in U.S.A. by Warren Stone and Alexander Campbell. (Facts hidden from members of Iglesia Ni Cristo). Things that happened inside INC that are downplayed and not being discussed anymore but this are just to remind INC Manalo members.

• Erano Manalo - LINK TO: The head of Iglesia Ni Cristo is disgruntled about INC’s workers (Ministers and Deacons) for stealing from thechurch coppers. And he did not single out a few but he mentioned all.

• More lies and disagreements with Felix Manalo’s doctrines that Christmas is of pagan origin vs. their actual INC’s practices – PASUGO December 1957 p. 28 by EmelianoI. Agustin about Pasko o Christmas “Ang diwa ng Pasko ay kapayapaan nang mundong naglunoy sa lusak ng buhay. Mabuting balita sa kinalulugdan, Pagsilang ni Jesus sa abang sabsaban." Translation: "The spirit of Christmas is peace in the world in turmoil. Good news pleases, Birth of Jesus in lowly manger"

• PASUGO November 1967 p. 33 says ”It is clearly testified to by history that the Far East is the Philippines. Filipino race, therefore, are these sheep of Christ who are not yet in the fold while He was…..” but look at what Erano Manalo declared later to disagree with his father, Felix Manalo’s doctrine about Far East in PASUGO July 1997 p.5 “Let us set this clear. We have never taught that any mention of the expression ‘far east’ refers to the Philippines. We are aware of the vast area called “far east”… wow did he branded Felix Manalo his very own father and founder of Iglesia ni Felix Manalo as a big liar? Erano Manalo fully understood and recognized that Iglesia Ni Manalo members in the Philippines is only about more or less 5% of the whole Philippine populations who are the “Other Sheep” who don’t know Jesus Christ as God and therefore the Catholics who represents around 90% of the Philippine populations are Jesus Christ’s very own “My Sheep” for they all know Him.   

• Here is what Jesus said about the “other sheep” who don’t know Him. MATTHEW 13:10-17  10 “And his disciples came and said to him: Why speakest thou to them in parables? 11 Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given. 12 For he that hath, to him shall be given, and he shall abound: but he that hath not, from him shall be taken away that also which he hath. 13 Therefore do I speak to them in parables: because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled in them, who saith: By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand: and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive. 15 For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 16 But blessed are your eyes, because they see, and your ears, because they hear. 17 For, amen, I say to you, many prophets and just men have desired to see the things that you see, and have not seen them, and to hear the things that you hear and have not heard them.” – Jesus says the “other sheep” (Iglesia ni Manalo) does not know Him and the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven were not in reality received by Felix Manalo and his Iglesia. This alone proves that Felix Manalo can never be a SUGO (messenger) sent by Christ for Jesus himself said the "other sheep" (Felix Manalo and his members) did not have the knowledge and the truth about God and heaven. And Jesus said that the prophecy of Isaiah was fulfilled in them (Iglesia Ni Cristo).

All the verses that the Iglesia Ni Cristo (INC) member mentioned earlier were the understanding of the “Other Sheep” who did not possess the TRUTH and therefore will never know Jesus Christ until they convert out of INC and become Christ’s “My Sheep” and until then, INC members will remain in darkness and in hatred of the Catholic Church.

There are many more to show the heresies of the Iglesia Ni Cristo but this is long enough. So tell me members of Iglesia Ni Cristo , who is in disagreement with the Holy Scriptures? Aren’t you the Iglesia Ni Manalo?    

The LINK TO: The Heretical Teachings, Beliefs Doctrines and Actual Practices of Iglesia Ni Cristo.html